which xml processing (read/write) lib is recommended for flexibility and ease?

dom4j?

Look at xstream

~~dfas sjsxp

dfas, I have no idea what sjsxp is.

idiot bot

~stax

StAX is the Streaming API for XML: see JSR 173 - http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=173 - there is an implementation available from Sun as part of jwsdp 1.5 and later. A StAX implementation is included in the JDK starting with JDK6

~sjsxp is <see>stax

Okay, cybereal.

~no, stax is the Streaming API for XML: see ~jsr 173 and https://sjsxp.dev.java.net/ for Java 1.5 and earlier. Java 1.6 includes an implementation in the JDK.

Okay, cybereal.

anyone have any idea why this stacktrace is happening? http://pastebin.com/m6ea5750c

looks like you tried to call a method that doesn't exist

im mashing together two applications.

that worked before the mash

what's with all this mashing these days?

what happened to good old smashing?

Mmm. Why is % not modulus? :(

it is, as long as your number is non-negative

% returns the signed remainder

~javadoc Math

cybereal, please see java.lang.Math: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html

how do I handle the negative case easily?

I looked there, but didn't see anything blatantly useful.

if(negative) {add N}

for num % N

what if it's negative by a huge amount?

lmao

.....

hahahahah oh man that's hilarioius

:(

I fail.

it can't be smaller than -(N-1)

there's a java puzzler on this

imagine: float f = -1233.123; float norm_angle = f % 360; // wrong, but intention

pstickne: ((n % m) + m) %m

C conditioned me to never use % on floating point numbers :)

flippo: i wonder how that compares to the check-and-add

http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html#IEEEremainder(double,%20double)

Fanook, it costs vastly more, more than you can afford, perhaps.

(Floats should use Math, yes.)

r0bby looks around

did I miss a party?

(I see xjrn is opped)

r0bby: no we waited for you

oh, can I make it an epic fail party?

didn't you already?

Don't I always :>

oh sorry you need to stop that though

I mean I'm not really trying to be mean

but it's like you keep holding up these "Please be mean to me" signs...

r0bby: it was a glorious op moment. [15:44] =-= Mode ##java +b BUSH_FROM_HEAVEN!*@* by xjrn ; <xjrn> BUSH_FROM_HEAVEN: I do this purely on moral, religious, and visual grounds

~xjrn++

xjrn has a karma level of 7, r0bby

damn my karma throttling code

javabot xjrn++

xjrn has a karma level of 8, r0bby

:>

r0bby: i want a factoid that says "let's all slam down lots of coffee and talk about web toolkits!"

One thing I'm glad is that come next january, no more Dick and Bush in the white house

I can make more crude jokes, but I won't

~~xjrn be xjrn

xjrn, let's all slam down lots of coffee and talk about web toolkits!

I seriously wanna write an operation to handle all of this so the factoid table doesn't get clogged

factoid table gets double-plus-unemptied

I think i'll do it now

~source

you can find my source at https://fn-javabot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/fn-javabot - a tutorial on how to set up the bot can be found at http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php/FAQ/RunningJavabot

r0bby pulls a clean tree

orwell was a C programmer at heart

heh?

++!good

you'd have to read 1984 to understand

r0bby... you haven't read 1984?

I

ve been meaning to

xjrn points and laughs

Fanook shuns r0bby

you really ... hm it will simultaneously amaze you and crush your hope for humanity

I never did get hooked on fonics :P

...

bad joke

lol

I lol'd

you have to remember those lame commercials

I do

~facebook

svm_invictvs, I have no idea what facebook is.

Oh man

1-800-ABCDEFG

Somebody needs to create a Freenode ##java facebook group!

one exists

but for efnet i think

the only comercials worth remembering are the clapper and life alert and 'where's the beef!'

r0bby: eh?

Well, there needs to be Freenode ##java!

I made one for ##C++

Freenode ##C++

I bet cheeser would approve :-P

not if i created it :P

cute

the maven repo for maven-ant-tasks is down

r0bby: I seriously doubt anybody would join.

heh

yeh me too

I cant figure out how to create a group (and I don't think i care too much; I lost interest in facebook)

Do one on LinkedIN

bah

cute -> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=32797

r0bby, you came back to windows? :-)

The_Birdman: r0bby is a huge vista fanboy

~r0bby--

r0bby has a karma level of 14, The_Birdman

r0bby:how come your karma is still positive compared to before :-) ?

reset, but pr3d is tanking it

cybereal: I sure hope that was sarcasm

r0bby: based on you still using it I'm not so sure

tanking?

svm_invictvs: mmm not that kind of tanking

cybereal: i'm using it because all hardware is supported under vista and I don't feel like fighting right now

:)

beginning to sound like why I switched to Mac

cybereal: I got this laptop because it was pretty looking

It's orange!

hideous

nonsense! ..my cell phone is also orange

also hideous

beauty in the eye of the beholder: translation: you're hideous

But I am a golden god

Of course, i'm the one who's single so... yeh :P

but....beholders have many many eyes

can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive, web host provider that provides jvm access, tomcat5/6, struts, and allows servlets, jsps, mysql/postgresql?

GreySkyze:try google, but maybe myjavaserver.com, there should be some other cheap hosts

grrr

why must netbeans be so buggy!

every system, and every OS ive installed it on it always does the same buggy crap :(

netbeans is crap

take a little time to learn eclipse, or pay out for IDEA or just drop IDE's altogether, that's my suggestion list ;)

trying to remember, can you make eclipse use Sun's compiler?

IDEA is really nice -- now, when they have good Scala support ;-)

tty1: the worst part is netbeans has really poor "backup" support ^^

tty1: which I find a shame (backups are friends. they turn an "omg, my last 30 minutes of work are gone!!!" into a "man, have to restart ... time for a coffee")

Fanook: I don't know, but it's really just for the debugging phase, any sane use of an y ide is coupled with a standalone build process and tests... so I never really worry about that. Though I have come across at least two different compiler behavior differences between eclipse and sun.

Fanook: you can.

pstickne: backups? do you mean edit history or... actual backups like in the sense of backing up your files (which makes no sense mind you)

hm I need some food. Zero effort. No wheat. pisser!

cybereal: anything that can withstand a random crash.

cybereal: that is, not lose data during an unexpected failure. not that integration with a history/RCS isn't nice.

I suspect you crash a hell of a lot more often than I do...

I've never had a crash that affected my files, though I do do backups

my backsups have been useful in all human-error cases

at any rate, eclipse has an editing history

local history

not sure how it works though

and if you're waiting 30+ minutes to hit save I wonder about that... :)

PMD has a warning "turn final local variables into member fields". Now I m thinking the reason its final is because I believe the reference should not change once assigned and its local because nobody outside the local context should see it. Is there another side to this wisdom I m missing

CodeWar: final implies a little more than that, perhaps the warning stems from there

you could also just ignore PMD

Yes I want to but I want to understand what its saying first. Unfortunately its go no more information for this warning than that

!pastebin

!paste

CodeWar: there isn't anything in their documentation either

http://pmd.sourceforge.net/rules/controversial.html

CodeWar, PMD is useful but you don't want to follow everything it suggests! :-)

what about FindBugs

It's nice too but like I said before those tools are not to be followed blindly :-)

Trust your own master time to time, ie you

I wouldn't trust a Java dev which only relies on those tools to write good code :-)

"If you have only static methods in a class turn it into a Singleton" Now I m thinking I do have one such class and the reason I prefer all static to Singleton is less code. I dont need to create a instance creator make sure theres only one copy make the cons pvt. Is there something on the other side of the argument

CodeWar: a class with all static methods and private static state *IS* a singleton

CodeWar: java world is so full of people who can't see through the shit they buried themselves in

hehe

https://sourceforge.net/.../?func=detail&atid=479921&aid=2027626&group_id=56262

cybereal, not if you never instanciate that class only one

cybereal, think of the class-enum pattern.

cybereal, I understand its a singleton is there reason one would prefer an explicit singleton over a static all class

cybereal, that's not a singleton at all, a single is a bit more than a static class with *static* state

amnesiac: see you're a perfect example of a moron who is poisoned by years of java overengineering

CodeWar: dogma

CodeWar: or perhaps that constant fear of change which would require them to actually think really hard about whether something should actually be a singleton as using a static class kind of binds you to it

cybereal, sure. like a fucking singleton is a Java thing

CodeWar, usually the methods in an all static share few to zero variables, if you share a lot of variables between all static methods you probably want the usual singleton(getInstance())

~~pstickne pm

pstickne, Use /msg to talk to Drone and javabot, but ask other users first. See: http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php/FAQ/Pm

Wow, since when did eclipse allow you to edit your code while in debug mode

cybereal: aww :-/

cybereal, wake up

amnesiac: thinking it has to be a single *INSTANCE* is a bad java habit

cybereal, yes.. as you say... :)

m0: since... always?

For real?

mmm as long as I've used it ;)

at least 3 years

Been using eclipse like 5 years, wow

Thats sick

Hello world style :p, m0 ?

So happy :)

The_Birdman hides

Thats like innovative lool

New way to code now

googling some more I found a monostate pattern. Instead of all static functions have non static functions but static data members. Seems the adv is that this can still be inherited from and all the work to make it a singleton is not involved either

This may be an off topic question, but I think its more on-topic here than anywhere else. Is there a good, free, Swing GUI editor for eclipse (a visual one)

that implies there's a good Swing gui editor at all

Jigloo seemed decent but then I switched to netbeans a while back

thats true, it does, Fanook. Is there no such thing?

if you understand how Swing works, there's no real need for a gui editor

Fanook, I think the big difference is being able to look at it while you design. I am no design expert though, and I am not sure if this is true or not

*shrug* I don't use gui editors because I hate the code they generate. I think it helps that visualization comes easy to me

Fanook: Do you have any suggestions for figuring out swing?

TravisD, there are books and swing tutorials, IDEs which have Swing designers too if you don't want to bother about it

play around with it. learn how the standard layout managers work: Grid, Box, Flow, Group. Then look at TableLayout and FormLayout

r0bby kicks The_Birdman

dont tell him about that!

if you want to learn pain, play with GridBag

thanks

The_Birdman dodges r0bby kick

Why is GridBag pain?

~gbl

r0bby, gridbaglayout is a very powerful layout manager that allows precise control of component resizing. Tutorial http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/gridbag.html. a great helper class to set the constraints can be found here: http://papernapkin.org/examples/GBConstraints.java

tryit

you'll see why

TravisD: http://geekylittlepassages.blogspot.com/

is that you Fanook ?

yeah

which reminds me, I need to write up the next part

the sad part is that I've already got the GroupLayout code written, I just haven't gotten around to doing the write-up

Fanook, are you australian?

no, but I am a fan of the BBC

haha

~gridbag

I guess the factoid 'gridbaglayout humor' might be appropriate:

r0bby, gridbaglayout humor is at: http://madbean.com/anim/totallygridbag

see that TravisD

I never watvhed that

LMFAO

mornin`

Why is it hard to understand?

I totally hate using gridbag 100% why i prefer to cheat w/ BorderLayout

TravisD: because it's not what you think

Fanook: don't you DARE post about GroupLayout

TravisD is on a mac, with only java 5 :(

sucks for you :)

haha

dude get up to date

cybereal pets his java 1.6 on his mac

cybereal: explain me

r0bby: I WILL post about GroupLayout, and you might even like it

~soylatte

Fanook, soylatte is the port to OS X of the FreeBSD version of the OpenJDK, by Landon Fuller. It currently runs on OS X 10.4 and 10.5, but still requires that you start X11 in order to use swing. See: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

oh baby I like it kinky like that

i don't know you well enough to explain you

and no I don't mean soylatte

really...

ADC?

java 1.6 has been available on mac for months, if you have a current mac

no, regular software update

ah, right

just have to have a 64 bit mac

uhm Fanook

cybereal: how can I check?

which all currently sold macs are

TravisD: it would show up in software update

you probably don't have core 2 duo?

Syntaxhighlighter escapes markup :P

http://geekylittlepassages.blogspot.com/2008/08/gridbag-dude.html

see your last code snippet

cybereal: I bought a new macbook pro less than 4 months ago

I should know that, I have a newish mac downstairs

TravisD: then you probably already have java 1.6

TravisD: just know it's not set to the default

the default remains 1.5

hmm

how do I change it?

r0bby: oops

TravisD wonders if he should, or if he should maintain compatibility with older macs

TravisD: depends on what you want to change, take a look in /Applications/Utilities/java there should be something to control it there

the way I handled it is removed it from syntax highlighting :)

and embedded it in <code> tag

I'll be damned. 6 is in there.

used it when i posted my initial BGGA post

TravisD: the one that seems to actually affect non-applet apps it the list where you pick the order of which VM's should be used for JNLP (webstart)

if I slid java 6 to the top, then in terminal java -version shows java 1.6, if I move 1.5 up there, terminal shows 1.5

cybereal: yeah, I drug it up to the top .Whats new in 1.6?

uh

~api

cybereal, api is http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/

go there, go up one level, and there is a link about what's new someplace

just know that on mac, you still don't have java 1.6 for applets because safari is still 32 bit (it's still carbon based)

cybereal: yeah :) I'm not a huge user of applets

me either but it's worth noting

good =)

I wonder if iTunes and Safari will get ported to cocoa for snow leopard...

hopefully.

Ugh. So good to be using java again, haha. I spent the last 4 months working on a project for the University in C++

maybe apple will support the cocotron project for the Windows counterparts

the tutorial at java.sun.com strongly suggests using a tool to create GUI's instead of hand coding them

TravisD: despite the consensus here, I believe it's good to use a tool. just preferred if that tool isn't saving its work as source code, even if it eventually generates some from what you designed

cybereal: Are there any XML-Swing kind of things? haha

probably not eh?

well I heard that matisse actually does save a more structured file as well as generating code, maybe confirm that? it seems to be the premier gui editor for swing tehse days

though given javabeans existence, there's no really good reason one couldn't deserialize a gui out of an xml file

you'd just have to know where to hook in events and bindings

thoughts and feelings about the MiGLayout?

never heard of it, I dont' do much gui work with java

or anyr eally

oh, I see, haha

apparently it solves all layout issues, and is designed specifically for hand-coding them

lol

hi all

hi

Travis, or maybe anybody else.. who knows, is it possible to programmatically expand awt's Choice?

does an InterruptedException get thrown if another thread calls .interrupt() even if the thread is not in a blocking state?

Archon: it will be thrown after it's not blocking anymore

some blocking operations will honor the interrupt and stop

cybereal: ok. because i've got a thread that's supposed to be waiting on network input (ie. read())

and the thread should be interrupted when the user wants to exit

well make it daemon and it shouldn't matter

cybereal: ok, thanks

is there a way, in java, to determine the number of cpus/cores in the current system (so i can programatically determine the best thread pool size)

tty1: i think there's a method in System

tty1: yes but just cores

it'll return the count of cores

cybereal: cores are all i need

what call or class do i look at?

read Archon ...

tty1: it matters that much?

cybereal: i looked at System and saw no such method

pstickne: yup, it does

~javadoc System

cybereal, please see java.lang.System: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/System.html

cybereal: again, looked at the System class javba docs, and not seeing it

tty1: what kind of numbers/performance implications are observed from tweaking the thread pool size wrt core count?

maybe it's in Runtime

cybereal: yeah or that

sorry

tty1: just looking for some random ballpark :p

Runtime.getRuntime().availableProcessors()

Archon: thank you

pstickne: random ballpark of what?

oops

pstickne: missed one of your messages

pstickne: im noticing significant performance difference

cybereal pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/private/arusxa3ihrgnbzjudvjjpa

check that use of that method out ;)

pstickne: on my dual core machine i get a significant performance boost from using two threads in my thread pool rather than one

tty1: any numbers? that's neat, I have no idea how this stuff really plays out in life :)

tty1: on a single-core?

pstickne: not exact number, but its also highly application specific

lmao well yes obviously 2 is going to be a big diff from one, but above that it becomes questionable, it varies by numerous variables

pstickne: two core, one cpu

tty1: I mean two threads on two cores vs two threads on one core

cybereal: oh, of course :) but i do see a noticable decline when i run 10 as opposed to 3

pstickne: you wont notice a HUGE difference there

but i see a noticable difference in 3 vs 10

depending on what you're doing you may still get a performance increase

pstickne: my problem wasnt with picking too many threads though its with picking too many

pstickne: even if i picked a seemingly high and sane number like 10, what if its run on a system with 4 or even 8 quad core cpus.... that wont cut it

tty1: make it automatically determine the number of threads :)

tty1: independent of cores :)

pstickne: that would require more coding than jsut relying on the number of CPUS :)

pstickne: down the line it may very well be dynamic based on performance

tty1: right, it doesn't have to be dynamic, could use a `warmup' period

although I think dynamically adaptive systems are cool

pstickne: there are many ways to better determine the number of threads, no doubt about that. but all of them are more of a coding error :)

tty1: it doesn't seem terribly complex :)

besides, you're 1/Mloc error rate, right? ;-)

pstickne: i never said it was insanely complex. but complex enough to not be worth my time for this particular app :)

any poor java coeders wanna make some quick cash helping me with a demo program (its relativly small considering it is just a demo of a PoC)

i have one frigin problem i cant figure out for days/weeks now

tty1: still? what problem btw? (not that I'm volunteering ;-)

pstickne: its a program which does lossy image compression using a neural network, and the image isnt comming out as clear as it does when ive implemented the algorithm in c# (Which i have working just fine as a refrence)

pstickne: ive went over it so many times, and compared it to the C# stuff that i know it must be a small error, something like a one line fix

just cant frickign find it

and its killing me

tty1: aww :( about the time you hit "neural network" I had a temporary memory of AI (CS440) last year ;-)

and that made me think of SOAR, which makes my head hurt

tty1: using types with the same precision, right?

pstickne: the neural net stuff is pretty simple actually, just a simple multilayer perceptron (Well technically the activation function isnt a perceptron, its a Sin or tanh activator)

pstickne: well there is some conversion between byte to double (between -1 and 1).. so no.. but i should be normalizing the values properly (all tests seem to indicate thats the case)

of course at this point im willing to accept that anything could be to blame

If I don't have to sign an NDA I may look at it if I get bored -with no guarantee of any feedback, useful or not ;-)

pstickne: no nda required, and no garuntees required, in fact its open source :)

posty posty posty

pstickne: svn://svn.syncleus.com/dANN

pstickne: the current version on my HDD uses multiple cpu's/core's to speed it up.. but not the latest one in the svn... since my code is mostly debugging printouts i dont want to check it in till i clean it up a bit

what does dANN stand for/do?

pstickne: Dynamic Artificial Neural Network. It is just a ANN library

pstickne: it is intended, over time to contain standard algorithms as well as new R&D stuff from me and my company. But most of all the really cool stuff hasnt been moved from closed to open source just yet... so right now its pretty basic

pstickne: this particular problem/app is just a demo, part of a series of example demos on how to use the library and some things it can do.. this one being a simple lossy image compression using an ANN

pstickne: im more than happy to step you through getting it compiled and runnigna nd pointing you at the various points of intrest in the code if youd like

still downloading

what's the C code for?

pstickne: not used here

pstickne: the library has a C varient, C#, and java, as well as a JNI layer over the C varient (which is seperate from the native java implementation)

this particular issue uses the native java version of the library

so it works in the C# and C and C/JNI versions?

pstickne: the library itself has been tested with a XOR for all the libraries including the native java one and works.. however this particular image compression demo has only been tested and working in C#, the java version of the demo is what were working on now, C++ and jni do not have this demo, yet

need me to step you throught he various parts of the code? or help getting it compiled?

oh, noes, I have to setup ant

every proper java dev space needs ant :)

it's a pita to setup and use. I hate how it's distributed.

c'mon, no make?

lol linux guy huh?

I do enjoy a good console, yes ^^

on windows its just a quick install, but i hate windows for so many other reasons

pstickne: how many cores you have?

ahh, apt-get install ant. this looks to be much easier

:)

debian or ubuntu fan i take it?

aww, no run target?

sure there is

what are you working with?

debian -- sure, it's a "step behind" in packages, but it's the parent and, dammit, it doesn't try to pretend it's windows

java_dann doesnt have one, its just the library

but java_dann_examples does

first compile java_dann, then compile java_dann_examples, then issue the run target in examples

assuming we dont have a dependency issue it should work (or memory issue as with some more conservative systems

both of which are easily fixed

ah, okay, so how do I generate this image do-dah?

pstickne: the broken java one or the workign c# one?

for the java one run from ant, you should get a menu of choices ont he console, choose g, this should pop up a swing gui window

then click on the ... buttons

for the trainign dir pick any directory with one or more png files

tty1: ooh, tried Y (the 3D is borken)

and for the sample pick any png file

then click train, then wait, then process

pstickne: if you go with y you need to install java3d

but Y is the onlye xample that uses that

ahh, image files ... short of those (goes to `find` in /usr/share)

pstickne: i can e-0mail you some

as well as the output from the C# version so you know what kinda quality it should get

are you making opensores babies?

'huh?

joed: the blisters haven't popped yet ;-)

This channel is logged, so you might want to PM.

pstickne: images sent 3 original, and 3 output from c#

tty1: Btw, I'm happy to say I left Philly :)

joed: where did ya go?

tty1: Denver.

id take philly over denver any day :)

See that is where we differ, wife hated it.

joed: i do prefer nature, but the people in philly are the best

tty1: boo, the open dialog is kabroken (no files listed)

I'd argue that long time...

pstickne: thats cause your selecting a directory not a file

I spent a long time downtown corp Philly though.

tty1: ohh

joed: south philly is the place to be socially

joed: for training anyway

uhm, how long does training take? :(

err pstickne ^

We lived in suburbia, close to Wilmington.

pstickne: for 1000 cycles, few seconds

Ahh, if there isn't an exception :)

pstickne: takes 50,000 to see results similar to the c# image on c# though

uh oh

what sort of exception?

"Danger will robinson, Danger"

heh

LOL :)

i love that :)

pstickne: especially considering its AI, i thought that to be particularly cute :)

gah, could have at least picked a better looking girl, that picture is depressing

(or rather, just in better shape)

pstickne: those 3 images were jsut the first 3 results ic ould get from google when searching for decent png images :)

pstickne: i was looking for trainign images without too much area of constant color

to give it a better training set for such a small number of images

are all those training images or image-images?

use jsut the IN* images as training images

all 3

then pick any of the three as the sample

hmm, I take it the output shouldn't look monochromatic

yes

its a monochromatic representation of the blue channel

reminds me of islands in and old game...

to be exact

the c# version processes it as 3 seperate b&W channels for each color than recombines

for now im working with just one channel, i will add the other 2 once the image is clear and its working

how do I view the output?

what do you mean, i thought you can see a monochromatic image? that is the output

its just highly distorted, much more than it should be

right, but it doesn't say much

what do you want it to say?

(as in, it could spit out anything and I'd go, "uhh, huh")

the only useful information i could add is an error between output and input

no output image?

but you can visually see that the error is too high at this point

pstickne: there is an output image, its just displayed

should be when you click process

(if I had a reference)

below the original

pstickne: i sent you a reference

the e-mail had 6 images, in and out

the picture displayed is gray-scale ^^

right

but the quality should be similar to the c# quality

all the images you sent were color...

just in greyscale

Guys, take it to a pm.

oh, heck, then it's not even close

joed: why this is java

pstickne: yup, not even close

pstickne: there in lies the problem

No it is not, it is you pimping your company.

joed: actually its an open source java app

Please don't argue.

joed: no one complains about talking about apache

or tomcat

We seldom do and tomcat sucks.

Right now you are providing install instructions.

joed: ill go in pm if your an op (or any op asks me) very happily (are you, if so im sorry to have continued)... but unless that happens, considering as this is help with a java bug, id prefer to keep it in here.

Which is all fine and dandy, just move it off channel?

so, uhm, how's the weather?

joed: like i said, im sorry to have continued then.

Can you please move this to a pm?

joed: of course.

Thanks bud!

joed: my pleasure

pstickne: well may i pm you then?